Commons:Categories for discussion/2017/06/Category:Mature women

This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Mature women

See also: Commons:Categories for discussion/2021/05/Category:Middle-aged women.

I think this category should be deleted. "Mature" is another term for "adult", so "mature women" is another way of saying "women". There's no English Wikipedia article for "mature women" and there's no corresponding Category:Mature men. We also have a full range of age categories such as Category:40-year-old human females where the subject's age is known, and if the age isn't known we shouldn't guess. --ghouston (talk) 05:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

•  Support. Delete. - Jmabel ! talk 06:04, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

If the category is eliminated, I hope it won't be in the same way as in the classic "Adolescent girls" fiasco, where all categories with the words "Young women" in their name were blindly changed to have "Adolescent girls" in their names instead (regardless of appropriateness or otherwise), creating a huge mess which affected many thousands of files, and took years to fully clean up... AnonMoos (talk) 04:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

This wouldn't be a renaming, but a deletion. I'd just dump the contents of each "mature women" category into the corresponding "women" category. I suppose, since the categories aren't very large, it'd also be possible to check if they could be added to specific age group categories. I.e., where both the subject's birth date and the date of the image are known. --ghouston (talk) 06:48, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

 Delete - An unnecessary and subjective category. Wiktionary definition #1 of "Subjective" = "Formed, as in opinions, based upon a person's feelings or intuition, not upon observation or reasoning; coming more from within the observer than from observations of the external environment." This category would be a constant source of error and clean up.

Already have the factually accurate (where the age is known) - Category:Humans by chronological age which covers the full human lifespan for men and women of all ages. -- Ooligan (talk) 03:50, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

•  Delete Unnecessary cat. --E4024 (talk) 07:06, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
•  Keep There is an article ja:熟女. and also Category:Old women have sub-category Category:Old women by age. Do you think it ? --Benzoyl (talk) 08:26, 19 June 2017 (UTC) --Benzoyl (talk) 08:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

I think more about young women. Some of them are quite mature. I believe maturity is a state of mind, difficult to categorize. I will never add there any files if the cat stays. --E4024 (talk) 08:40, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

For example, "over 40" "mature women" in this writing. - http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/fashion/a-20-somethings-web-site-for-women-over-40.html --Benzoyl (talk) 08:49, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Is it Commons:Categories for discussion/2010/05/Category:Young women ? I think, User:Diwas's these Category name are nice ideas. --Benzoyl (talk) 08:57, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

You ask about Category:Young and mid-aged adult women (18-59 yo) or about Category:Mid-aged women (30-59 yo)? (40-59 yo)? or Category:Young adult women (18-39) and Category:Mid-aged women (40-59 yo)?--Diwas (talk) 19:16, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

If we had to have these categories, I'd go with Category:20-29 year-old women etc., which would just contain the existing categories for the individual years. But I don't think they are necessary. --ghouston (talk) 09:23, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Alternatively, create Category:Women by age and let it contain the individual age categories from 18 years upwards. The split between Category:Female humans and Category:Women causes problems in subcategories (likewise for the male versions). --ghouston (talk) 09:35, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

There's also a discussion about "Old people" etc., at Commons:Categories for discussion/2015/12/Category:Old women by country. --ghouston (talk) 09:20, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

• For some reason we don't have a cat on "Mature men". Or do we? Do we also have a cat on Nude or half naked men lying on the beach with sunglasses? I'm afraid we are too interested in women in Commons. Lack of enough female participants... --E4024 (talk) 09:29, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
• I created Category:Mid-aged people . But, "between 45 and 65" writen in Middle age. I'm having some trouble this definition of range. --Benzoyl (talk) 13:46, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

• Yeah, there's not going to be a single definition for a term like "middle-aged". The proposal would be to rename this category to "Middle-aged women". I think "mature women" is more of a fashion industry / porn industry term, as the Google translate of the japanese article mentioned above (ja:熟女) suggests. I'm not sure if I support keeping it in this form (I already voted to delete Category:Old people.) At best, it would just be a container for categories like Category:40-year-old human females, or perhaps categories of the form Category:20-29 year-old women that I mentioned above and User:Benzoyl has started creating. --ghouston (talk) 01:26, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

• @ghouston, I agree "rename this category to "Middle-aged women"." --Benzoyl (talk) 06:19, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

•  Delete unless it's repurposed; I have no objection to something like "Middle-aged women" as a subcategory of Women. But aside from that idea, this is not a helpful category, since we shouldn't have to guess someone's age when deciding which category to use for the photo. Nyttend (talk) 18:43, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
• There is a consensus on deleting one of the subcats of this cat. Indeed this could also be deleted by now. --E4024 (talk) 12:59, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Issue remains. & there's no corresponding Category:Mature men. What on earth does it mean to have a picture like File:Garden of Cactus Dahlias, Alaska-Yukon-Pacific-Exposition, Seattle, Washington, 1909 (AYP 1190).jpeg, which has one woman barely visible in the distance classified in Category:Mature women. I still prefer deleting the category. - Jmabel ! talk 05:23, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

 Comment Leave the issues (discussions) remain forever without a result and IPs come and impose new cats like Category:Young adult women. Another problem to solve. --E4024 (talk) 01:34, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

 Comment Category:Young adult women is nice better naming. I agree. --Benzoyl (talk) 15:25, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

• It was deleted for times, for a good reason... E4024 (talk) 15:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

• BTW this cat was moved by User:Sanya3, similar to their making other new categorization around women, without waiting for a consensus. E4024 (talk) 15:33, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Given four years of lack of consensus, I don't blame him for being bold. I still say delete even under the new name (which is at least a little better, in that we might have some consensus what it means, though still not on how it is useful or appropriate). - Jmabel ! talk 00:28, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
•  Keep The Wikipedia rule is to be bold on editing, so I am using it here as well. I do think age-related categories are useful, both the number-based ones and the broader ranges, so "Middle-aged women" should be kept. It's a much better name than "mature women", as anyone can be mature for their age. I have also created the corresponding category of "Middle-aged men". --Sanya3 (talk) 08:24, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @Sanya: this is not Wikipedia, and "be bold" is not a principle on Commons. - Jmabel ! talk 07:10, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

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No action needed at this time. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:56, 14 November 2023 (UTC)