Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/02/Category:Face in Hole

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Category:Face in Hole

[edit]
See also: Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2019/02#Noun?.

Starting this discussion following Commons:Village_pump#Wrong_category_names …

Category:Face in Hole and Category:Comic foregrounds are aimed at the same thing: Those boards with some kind of figure printed/painted on the front and a hole cut where the face would be. You stick your head through the hole and someone else takes a photo. However, neither Category:Face in Hole nor Category:Comic foregrounds are for this kind photo-opportunity exclusively:

Both categories strictly speaking also to not allow all pictures of this:

--El Grafo (talk) 12:51, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It would be considered funny to pretend you're some ace fighter pilot, but I get you point. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 17:49, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that a board has to have a face stuck in its hole at any one moment to still be a "face in hole board". I would probably prefer to move all images showing boards with holes for faces to be inserted to "Category:Face in hole boards" or similar... AnonMoos (talk) 23:48, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Face in hole boards I think it's good. --Benzoyl (talk) 00:10, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They go by many names.. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 00:58, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think "Photo stand-in" is actually the best title. It avoids the requirement of a board or a face (which might not always be present). It's also clearer than "comic foreground" for reasons pointed out above. I wouldn't include the "bread cat" images here anymore than an image of someone sticking their head out a window or through a hulahoop. - Themightyquill (talk) 15:01, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I might add that, unfortunately, most of these images could probably be deleted as derivative works, unless Freedom of Panorama is in effect or the art on the board is released under a commons compatible license... =( - Themightyquill (talk) 15:03, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Themightyquill: this is actually a pretty old tradition. See various examples here: http://www.laboiteverte.fr/des-photos-anciennes-dans-des-decors-2/. Many would be public domain now, the problem is putting an actual date on them. Some classic photo stand-in designs were made by Cassius Marcellus Coolidge, those would (mostly?) also be PD. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 15:31, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The meaning of "Photo stand-in" is not too clear unless you already know the term. Some alternative names are more intuitive... AnonMoos (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@AnonMoos: Strangely, these things don't have a single uniform name: http://grimbeorn.blogspot.com/2015/01/search-engines.html, http://www.shadesofthedeparted.com/2009/03/friday-from-collectors-march-20.html:

We had a request for a photograph of one of those end-of-the-pier painted boards into which you stick your head to get photographed. But what are they called? No one seems to know. (..) Two Flickr groups featuring pictures of them have the titles Head Through the Hole and Things You Stick Your Head In (..) My search online found face cut-outs. Michael Hocken tells me that the Web site of a British seller of the things calls them head through the hole photo booths. (..) the invoices had called them photo cutout boards. (..) comic foreground, a name (and a genre) which Wikipedia claims was invented by the American painter and cartoonist Cassius Marcellus Coolidge (..) tells me that the French call them passe-têtes (..) Peter Casey discovered examples of carnival cutouts (..) Richard Beard, former director of the California Renaissance Faire, says such items are a stock-in-trade at US themed events and have the name lookie loo (..) another term used by a number of the US makers of such items is faceless cutouts (..) In lieu of a name that will be understood everywhere, a couple of readers suggested that they be called Headleys in honour of the questioner.

— Michael Quinion of World Wide Words
It wouldn't even be a bad name. - Alexis Jazz ping plz 18:37, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • merge them all I don't care what they're called, but hair-splitting debates about whether or not a face-is-in-the-hole are unproductive. A 1:1 correlation between every imaginable concept and category only leads to every image being in its own category, which defeats the purpose of categorization helping people find like images. A comic foreground is an entirely appropriate category name/redirect: we shouldn't avoid names just because someone may conceivably mistakenly place this image in the category. And yes, not all comic foregrounds are 'comical', yet neither are all comics. Comic is synonymous with graphic. FWIW, I don't think "photo stand-in" is the most common term, but if its the most inclusive term, by all means use it.--Animalparty (talk) 00:37, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge into Category:Face in hole. Add a description (
    English: "Face in hole" is the concept of using a hole through which a human or animal face can be seen in order to alter the depiction of the person or animal for comedic or other purposes.
    Under this category, if the need exists, there can be categories to differentiate between the types of objects that might have such a hole (board, bread, etc.), whether or not a face is in the hole and what kind of face it is (cat-face-in-hole?), and what purpose the face in hole serves (comedic, etc.). I am not saying all of these are needed, but they can be created if needed. The point is to create Category:Face in hole as a parent category for all of it, regardless of subcats. Josh (talk) 22:49, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since no one did anything for three years, I merged the categories and added Josh's description (I found the discussion after uploading a nice vintage example from 1895). I also merged the two Wikidata items (one was just the link to the Commons Category without anything else). I don't have a strong opinion about which name to use, but there should only be one category. --Anvilaquarius (talk) 17:29, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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